Unlocking Marketing Magic with AI: Insights from Ashley Laabs of Composure Digital

May 30, 2024

In this exciting episode, Amber Jacobs, owner of Amber Design, sits down with Ashley Laabs, Head of Content at Composure Digital. Join us as we dive deep into the world of marketing and branding, exploring how Ashley and Amber create magical content for their clients. 🚀✨

It’s our responsibility as creatives to be those tastemakers. In a way, this is where it can be helpful to use A.I., and this is where it can be harmful if humans stop producing relevant new content. – Ashley Laabs

Topics Covered:

  • The role of AI in content creation and its impact on trust and authenticity.
  • The evolution of marketing agencies and the shift towards a more flexible, freelance-driven model.
  • The importance of personal branding and building genuine connections on platforms like LinkedIn.
  • Ethical considerations and best practices for using AI in creative work.
  • Reflections on the recent Writers Guild strike and its implications for content creators.


About Our Guest:

Ashley Laabs brings a wealth of experience in content strategy and brand messaging, having worked with everyone from small businesses to Fortune 500 giants like Amazon, T-Mobile, eBay, and Acer. Learn about her journey from running a trade magazine to leading content at Composure Digital and her insights on the future of marketing.

Connect With Our Guest:

🔗 Visit Composure Digital: www.composuredigital.com

📧 Contact Ashley: [email protected]

💼 Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn: Ashley Laabs LinkedIn

Don’t miss out on this insightful conversation! Like, comment, and subscribe for more episodes of Amber Energy. 💡✨

Listen to the whole podcast anywhere you get podcasts and make sure to subscribe to stay up to date on new episodes, releasing every other week! Also Available on Youtube!

Listen on PodBean badge  button that says listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on YouTube Music badge for Podcasts  button that says listen on   watch on Youtube

Do you want to hear Amber speak more on things like change, personal and career growth, and entrepreneurship? Fill out our speaking engagement form!

Buy sustainable “Amber-ism” merchandise at Awesomeamberisms.com

Book Amber for a speaking engagement at AmberEnergy.today

Read our blogs at AmberDesign.today

Learn more about my non-profit, Tutus & Tequila at TutusAndTequila.org and purchase a DIY tutu and margarita making kit on Etsy today!

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:30:22


It’s our responsibility as creatives to be those tastemakers. In a way, this is where it can be helpful to use A.I., and this is where it can be harmful if humans stop producing relevant new content. The Content Sniffer. The AI technology is only as good as the content that is currently written, and they go on your LinkedIn profile or they go on your website, they go on your blog, and the whole thing lights up and it’s just all AI content.


00:00:30:23 – 00:00:44:21


How are they supposed to trust you? How are they supposed to believe that, you know, anything?


00:00:44:23 – 00:01:15:18


Alright, Welcome to another episode of Amber Energy, the podcast. Today you’ve got Amber Jacobs, the owner of Amber Design and Ashley Labs, head of content for Composure Digital. Today we’re going to talk about some really great topics about marketing and branding and how we work together to create magical content for our clients. So today, how about Ashley? You just tell me a little bit about you and how you got started and then maybe a little bit of how you and I know each other.


00:01:15:20 – 00:01:39:21


Yeah, absolutely. So right now I am the head of content at Composure Digital. We focus on helping executives be to be leaders and be service providers to up their game on LinkedIn. This is the place where we’re having industry conversations. It’s the place where you build a reputation and you make your business personal, which is increasingly important with brand.


00:01:39:23 – 00:01:59:07


So that’s where we focus now. But I have a long history starting out, actually running a trade magazine for the indoor tanning and spa industry, which most people laugh because they get one look at me and I’m one of the fairest people you’ll find. So, no, actually, I worked for three months for Seattle Suntan for a brief moment.


00:01:59:09 – 00:02:20:02


Okay, So we’ve got some overlap there. But yeah, and then I moved into the digital world and have been doing content strategy and brand messaging and copywriting for everybody from, you know, 1 to 3 person businesses all the way up to the Fortune 500. It’s Amazon, T-Mobile, eBay, Acer, you know, all the big hitters, especially here in Seattle.


00:02:20:02 – 00:02:54:18


We have a lot of tech, don’t we all? My goodness. Yeah. I mean, you and I met at an agency, gosh what was that, 2008 and I think yeah rational. Mm hmm. Yeah, we work at rational now That’s called design It. They’ve been. I know they’ve been acquired. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. They were going through an interesting time. Even when we you and I were working there, they were designing a PR firm turned design agency, and we’re learning how to kind of like, do the do the bits in transition from PR to design agency.


00:02:54:20 – 00:03:17:05


I actually didn’t know that about them. I came in when they were pretty hardcore on the marketing side of things. Well, they were PS They were a PR firm originally, and then they kind of turned into more of a design agency of sorts, and then they brought in some top dog heavy hitters to show them how to set their business up to be acquiesced in as part of their strategy.


00:03:17:07 – 00:03:36:00


You know, I think that we see that a lot at agencies as they expand, They can track, they change directions, you know, because marketing is changing all the time. Content’s changing the way that we relate to these brands is changing all the time. And, you know, smart businesses change with the times. Well, I think that’s interesting, too. And then we can talk about this maybe a different topic later.


00:03:36:00 – 00:03:57:17


But, you know, I guess sort of like the exit strategy, right? The owner, the partners of rationale, rational. Ari, one of their rationale for leaving. Right. So they have like bigger dreams that they had. They wanted to scale their business and not to be able to sell the business because they had other dreams and aspirations to build up a business big enough to have an exit strategy.


00:03:57:17 – 00:04:25:06


And that’s what most of us need to have an idea of being creatives. Like, what does that look like in, you know, 20 years when we want to be retired? You know, do we want to scale up our businesses and have enough residual income and in, you know, bits coming in and have like a nice base of residual income and then be able to have like cherry projects, then you’re making a consensus salary and, you know, get interested buyers or a partner or somebody who wants to buy your out, buy you out or buy your business.


00:04:25:06 – 00:04:52:01


I mean, all of us creatives kind of needed to have that sort of in the back of our head at some point. Well, yeah, I think a lot like a lot like the brands that we work with, we are all becoming personal brands. Precisely. You know, part of the reason I changed directions in my business is because I was seeing how in the B2B world it’s really about those one on one conversations, those one on one relationships.


00:04:52:01 – 00:05:20:06


And so you have to make the brand true through personal, individual shared expertise and relationships. And I think much the same way a lot of us as creatives are becoming independent brands and we’re seeing that a lot of the older agency models aren’t working anymore. I think that we’re seeing an increase in in contracting and freelancing because of the distributed model of agencies as what’s taking over.


00:05:20:12 – 00:05:43:21


And they need to be able to flex up and down with the market as it changes. You know, that’s part of the reason I went into business for myself and I partner with people like you and other boutique agencies so that we can form a network of creatives that can accomplish really great work while not having the bloat and overhead and an unnecessary amount of hierarchy in our business.


00:05:43:21 – 00:06:04:01


Precisely. Yeah, that’s a good point. I was noticing that too. I’ve been in the industry. I graduated in 2008, so I’ve been in industry for just a moment and I sort of saw that trend too. Like I saw some of my favorite agencies in downtown Seattle, you know, have to like scale and contract all the time, depending on what businesses they had won or lost.


00:06:04:03 – 00:06:27:08


And they would have to like, scale up their business or down scale or businesses that had like a core skeleton crew that then they would expand a contract depending on what client they had won or lost. So I saw that volatility a lot in like the agency world, and I was like, Man, that got a stink because they tried to hire, you know, have like an on staff developer on staff, an app developer, website developer, copywriter, video production team.


00:06:27:12 – 00:06:47:00


They had to have they had all these ah, photographers and try to had everything sort of in-house as a bit. And I was like, Man, that’s got to stink. And then they would lose whatever client Bigwig 500 Porsche, 500 retainer client And then they lay off all those folks that were no longer needed for that client anymore. And I was like, Man, that’s going to be like a really rough business model.


00:06:47:02 – 00:07:08:17


And as a contract, I kind of got caught up in it, too. You know, I get hired, fired, laid off, let go. You know, in the agency world, the first 5 to 7 years that I got out of college and it was like, observe by observation, I was like, this is kind of a rough life. Like you’re really never guaranteed a position in that you are of FTE.


00:07:08:19 – 00:07:29:11


I realize that really you were kind of like always on the chopping block as a creative. Yeah, absolutely. I think that is a pattern that exists in a lot of different places and a lot of different industries. I was just listening to the Wall Street Journal’s podcast today about the the writers strike that’s going on. Oh my gosh, there’s Kellwood.


00:07:29:13 – 00:08:17:02


Yeah. And we’re seeing, you know, writers and entertainment, you know, creatives and entertainment. It’s becoming much more like the gig economy, which when you’re operating within huge systems like it, like it requires to make a movie or a TV show that really does not work in your favor. But I think that in the case of things like marketing and branding creatives, we have a bit more flexibility in our model and so we can have a lot more independent businesses that kind of are more of a collective and collaborate together to we can have a good living and dictate the terms of how we work and we can also come together and produce great work for


00:08:17:02 – 00:08:37:23


our clients. So I’m really glad to be in a part of the creative industry that allows for that kind of change. Yeah, that’s kind of the reason the reruns right now, because I know writers are writing because they’re part of the Writer’s Guild. Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s a whole fascinating topic. I was listening a couple of podcasts about that earlier this week when it happened.


00:08:38:00 – 00:08:57:06


So one of the terms or one of the issues with the Writers Guild not only is royalties, but it’s also around this technology. What are your thoughts on that technology? I saw your blog earlier, you were writing on LinkedIn earlier about it. So tell me about what your thoughts are for the podcast. Yeah, you know, I’m not an AI detector there.


00:08:57:06 – 00:09:21:10


There are a lie detectors, but I’ve definitely come across my fair share of content that I’m like, This is either not good or written by a robot, especially lately. And I, I get the feeling sometimes that, you know, there’s some really generic stuff out there that I’m like, I don’t even think anyone tried to write this. I think this came straight from some software and, you know, that doesn’t help us stand out.


00:09:21:10 – 00:09:45:11


That just creates more noise that we have to cut through. That does that’s not an advantage to anyone. And I think that, you know, what I wrote in my post that you’re referring to is talking about how A.I. is valuable and it will change the future of work. I don’t have any doubts about that, and I don’t think that it’s innately bad.


00:09:45:13 – 00:10:19:11


But we have to protect some things as things that are better done by humans. And I think that when we talk about, you know, of course my world is the content world. When we talk about writing and expressing our ideas with words, there’s there’s a certain amount of like research and outlines and topic ideation that can be a little bit faster when we use A.I., but the best ideas are the ones that connect with people and the ones that inspire action.


00:10:19:13 – 00:10:50:09


And we do that when we’re able to effectively tap into emotions and purpose and understanding of each other. And I think that that only happens when we do the hard work of grappling with those ideas and talking to other people and so for that reason, I think that there are limitations on the effectiveness of what we do if we’re just outsourcing all the hard parts, every part of the content process out to A.I..


00:10:50:11 – 00:11:22:18


And it’s our responsibility as creatives, I think, to be those tastemakers in a way of, you know, this is where it can be helpful to use A.I. and this is where it can be harmful to use A.I., because the reality is that if you’re relying on technology and you’re relying on a non-human source to create for your brand, you can undermine the trust of everything that you’re building.


00:11:22:20 – 00:11:41:10


And honestly, you can just come off as really generic because if you’re building something the world has never seen before, if you have a perspective that’s totally unique, you’re never going to be able to get that across by filtering it through something that just synthesized as whatever is already on the Internet. It’s kind of like a stock idea, right?


00:11:41:12 – 00:12:09:11


Like as a visual side of that would be like stock photography and how that for a long time kind of hurt photographers. But again, it never replaced really good photographers because at the end of the day, really good brand photography is done by professional or even the iPhone. When, you know, when the smartphones came out, you know, all the photographers were sort of worried because now everybody’s got a a phone in their pocket or a camera, rather, in their pocket, but never quite placed.


00:12:09:11 – 00:12:50:16


Real good professional quality photographers and high end DSLR cameras. So I think I think you don’t have much to worry because I think the other day, I think people enjoy the craftsmanship that goes into good writing, poetry or content. Because the other day I, you know, I still really enjoy pulling out my DSLR camera and taking really quality but good photos, verses, you know, whatever I get on my iPhone, this is good for like quick snapshot type stuff, but it’s not great for capturing like really good quality, you know, multilayered bulk, a tight field of field of vision type photography.


00:12:50:16 – 00:13:08:08


So I don’t think I’ll ever get rid of that. So I don’t think so either. It’ll continue to get better. And I like the robot versus human right. So it’s like you can tell the difference between what’s been done, you know, stock photography. Everybody knows what stock footage looks like, Everybody knows what you know, that iPhone camera picture looks like.


00:13:08:12 – 00:13:46:07


We can all tell the difference between that. Like you’re saying, robot created writing versus something that’s been done by humans in an artistic way. Yeah, Well, and our and our art is really the the point of it because I think that in the marketing world we can get really focused on output, we can get really focused on the deliverable and the asset, you know, this, this image or this Facebook post or this e-book and writing and designing and making art is a process.


00:13:46:11 – 00:14:22:00


It’s not a product. So anything that’s made by an AI is not art, it’s not written art, it’s not visual art, because there was no intention, there was no human, there was no feeling, there was no process. And so when we think about that, you know, that’s something different altogether. It really obscures all of the all the skills that we build by, again, engaging with those ideas as a human.


00:14:22:02 – 00:14:48:00


We learn so much about the work we do and what we believe we learn about our mistakes by engaging with those ideas. And I would hate for people to be so quick to outsource all of the hard parts to AI because it’s what makes us better people and it also leads to better businesses. Well, I think we use as a great tool.


00:14:48:00 – 00:15:16:04


You know, I can’t contemplate going on like how we’re going to use AI on the creative industry. I think it’s going to be an interesting tool, you know, to be able to scrub the Internet of all the previous content, to create new content and use it as a tool and maybe like a great brainstorming mood board type mockup idea grabbing tool that then we then humanize and massage and make art out of.


00:15:16:06 – 00:15:37:01


Yeah, I think it becomes very much a gray area where that stops and starts, right? Because again, if you lean too heavy into the air, it’s just like taking guy’s ideas and copy editing it or just, you know, doing a little photo retouching to it. That’s that’s not art either, right? Like, that’s not human or even gold. Talk about that.


00:15:37:01 – 00:16:01:14


We can go have a conversation about fine art and Duchamp and his urinal, you know, art piece that I know and I really shook the whole scene of his era. I think that the concept of art, written or visual is a complicated one when it comes to marketing because people want ROI. You know, that’s really what there we go.


00:16:01:14 – 00:16:28:14


That’s really what I write about, like marketing good visuals and good strategy and good copy are beautiful. But if they don’t create art y in sales, then you’re dead on arrival. Right? But what creates are so I loyalty in trust. Trust. Where does that come from? That comes from aligning on your values, That comes from understanding what your audience wants and needs, and that is human relationship.


00:16:28:16 – 00:16:54:10


That’s where that comes from. So we have to be careful how we use these air tools to make sure that we aren’t just leaking the humanity out of our brand, because ultimately your business is full of people and they need to be following through on that experience and those values and everything. So, you know, I just think that there there is value in our lie.


00:16:54:10 – 00:17:22:19


Like, I don’t think many people think about it as an art. They’re not thinking about the art of writing. They’re not thinking about the art of design when they’re hiring a marketing agency. But you’re hiring people who are holding those values and those feelings close in their work so that it can be effective. Yeah, I think, you know, that’s a very correct period of the day.


00:17:22:20 – 00:17:50:13


As you and I all know it’s all about. It’s all about people. It’s all about people connections. And that’s what makes most humans happiest is when they’ve made great human connections and, you know, making time for people, making time for connections is what makes most humans happy. Yeah, well, I’d love to be in a picture picture for you on this, because this is what I think about in my work, you know?


00:17:50:13 – 00:18:22:03


So I’m working with, like, executives in these businesses. Right? Right. They’re they’re experts in their fields. They’re very, very not only smart, but wise, of course. And I work with them to help bring their vision, their voice, their stories to life. But imagine outsourcing that to an I know you can’t because it’s just going to spit out a lot of generic content for you.


00:18:22:05 – 00:18:48:20


And even if I gets to a place where it can produce higher level content without someone having to force a lot over it, to be honest, there are tools that can identify a written content. So what would happen if you I mean, you are a B2B service provider. What would happen if someone went on your LinkedIn and I don’t know if this exists, but it feels like it’s a mere moment away.


00:18:48:20 – 00:19:09:20


If it doesn’t, what if someone turned on their Google Chrome extension for eye contact detection? Yeah, yeah. And they go on your LinkedIn profile or they go on your website, they go on your blog, and the whole thing lights up and it’s just all air content. Like, how are they supposed to trust you? How do they how are they supposed to believe that you know anything?


00:19:09:22 – 00:19:30:21


And that’s why I say that writing is not the product. It’s being able to engage with your ideas and communicate them in an empathetic, interesting, unique, honorable way. Like you don’t own content that’s produced by I the same way that you produce content. You own content. You produce yourself. Yeah, humans are you know, we should use our frontal lobes.


00:19:30:21 – 00:19:59:20


You know, we’re smart and we’re smart. People are smart organisms and we use our frontal lobes and not really use it or lose it. Yeah, yeah, we should use it. And honestly, it goes back. I was kind of interesting to read a little bit about, you know, the technology of AI and why how it works and, you know, AI technology and the writing world, our creative world is is only as good as the content it can sniff out on the interwebs.


00:19:59:22 – 00:20:27:21


So if humans stop producing relevant new content, the content sniffer, the AI technology is only as good as the content that is currently written. Well, yeah. And as more as more content becomes written by AI and it creates noise for itself, I mean, who knows? I think that there are things that are in AI that I can detect other I tech.


00:20:27:23 – 00:20:59:09


So it’s not just iterating on itself, but if you’ve ever tried to iterate on like an AI image over and over and over again, it becomes this just terrifying distortion of itself. It’s a really weird experience, but I think trying to say is not like it’s only as good as what humans create, you know? So that’s why humans need to keep creating relevant and beautiful art content, because if we don’t, then I will have nothing to work off of the tool will be dead on arrival.


00:20:59:11 – 00:21:18:09


Well, I mean, that’s a big incentive for people to not do it. Actually, people need to know how this technology works. It goes around. Smith In the current interwebs, of all the content humans have created to, oh, a sniffs over here and sniffs over there and, you know, and it brings it all together and creates its unique version of what it’s found on the Internet.


00:21:18:11 – 00:21:42:13


Yeah, Any air quotes right there? Well, I think that’s that’s something that a lot of people, not just creatives, but people who want to be thought leaders are worried about. They’re worried about doing the hard work and putting their ideas out there and then just having it scraped by AI and synthesized that someone else can take credit for it.


00:21:42:15 – 00:22:13:24


I hate that, and I think that there should be more protection around that. But I wonder if this is going to cause more people to gate their content and keep it from being publicly scraped. So we’re going to see, you know, more lead generation forms where you have to fill in your name and your information. You have to jump through some more hoops to prove that you’re human and gain access to that content now because you’re being taken advantage of.


00:22:13:24 – 00:22:36:03


And that’s a logical next step for many humans to protect their their content, their copyright really is going to come down to copyright. So I’m suggesting it’s going to cause a lot of issues we’re going to see. I mean, we’re already seeing issues, so we’re gonna see copyright issues. And so I think you’re right. It’s a logical next step is that people are gonna start getting their content.


00:22:36:03 – 00:23:12:07


We’re like, Yeah, I need a I need you to hit Cleopatra. I need you to select how many busses are in this, in these photos and prove that you’re a human before you can gain access to any kind of content. And what human among us has not failed to capture test like. I mean, I images are not always there for their for all the robot crazy I don’t know handles running around grabbing up bits but gosh I hate those things because every time you log into a thing I was like how many palm trees or how?


00:23:12:09 – 00:23:35:24


Let me keep clicking until there are no more busses and I’m just like, I’ll, all I want to do is watch a rerun of Parks and Rec, please. So stop it. Erica, How many gives you one picture, But it’s like multiple, like nine tiles in one picture slot. How many titles or whatever is a bicycle? I’m like, well, there’s like touching like five squares.


00:23:36:01 – 00:23:57:16


So you click on all five squares and it’s like, no, I mean, but they’re training us, right? We do it. I don’t yeah, we jump through the hoops because, you know, we have to prove that we’re human because there’s too many, you know, robots running around the Internet. Nothing like a robot testing you to prove you’re human. Nothing like it.


00:23:57:18 – 00:24:26:08


Not. I hate that. Oh, I’m so sad. Oh, I know. Doesn’t it make you want a scout’s honor? I mean, so here we are. Here we are. All right, So I. I think it’s going to come full circle. You know, I think a lot of things come full circle and back to basics. I’m saying, you know, we’ve seen a resurgence.


00:24:26:10 – 00:24:50:16


You know, I’m in a printing right? So we’re seeing people are wanting to come back to the newspaper. People want to come back to handwritten bits, you know, physical paper things. So I think we’re going to see a resurgence in print. I think we’re going to see a resurgence in photography where people come back to dark rooms and want to do the art of crafting photography again.


00:24:50:16 – 00:25:10:21


We want to feel something, I imagine tangible. I think humans not. I think I know humans are tangible creatures. We like to use our hands and touch and feel and do the bits. So I think, you know, I think I hate using, I guess using that, but you’re going to see humans come back to the dark room and do the craft of creating photography.


00:25:10:23 – 00:25:30:03


You’re going to see print come back in the craft of a printing press and I think are going to see people coming back to even the idea of writing poetry and crafting and writing again. I think you’ll see us kind of do a technology bit and it’s like, Oh, just kidding. And we come back to that, you know, the O.G., I think you’re going to I think humans do that time and time again.


00:25:30:03 – 00:25:50:03


I think we’re even seeing it super Segway people are even saying it now in the medical industry, people, you know, as humans that an early 1900s that like, oh, this modern technology, this Western medicine, it’s let’s try this out. And then we’ve kind of gone all crazy. It’s good for some bits, but maybe bits. Let’s go back to herbal medicine or let’s go back to Eastern style and let’s go back there.


00:25:50:03 – 00:26:10:17


More natural remedies are more natural bet. So you’re kind of seeing a resurgence back into like, you know, acupuncture or aroma therapy or what’s the other one? Whatever. Therapies doesn’t matter. We’re going back to more natural, more herbal remedies. Right? So you kind of we humans do this. We’re like, oh, this is like all of the technology. Oh, just kidding.


00:26:10:19 – 00:26:28:18


Well, I think we come back to, you know, the craft and like the the, you know, human, tactile version of the thing that we lost that we miss and we’re gonna come back to it. So I think it’s like, hold on. I think we’re seeing the same thing with social media. You know, we’ve also media this problem. And then just kidding.


00:26:28:18 – 00:26:44:12


I think I want to write a handwritten letter again, like I think I feel like picking up my pencil again. I’m going to write a letter back to my friends and pen pals again, because I think we’re missing that tactile writing, you know, bits where we’re going to start. Well, I kind of miss the craft of writing an actual letter and sitting in the mail.


00:26:44:14 – 00:27:05:19


Well, I think we weren’t made to sit in front of our screens all day, every day. We weren’t made to wake up and check our screens and then just like eat so that we could look at our screens during work and then go home so we could look at our fun screens. You know, when we were in for that.


00:27:05:19 – 00:27:40:14


And I think that you’re right, these things do come full circle, and I’m sure that we will find places to incorporate A.I., but it’s not going to be as ubiquitous as people imagine. But how long have we been tempted by the idea of the panacea, the cure? All right. Right. I think that every time something truly revolutionary comes, it it gains popularity because it seems like it’s the answer for everything.


00:27:40:15 – 00:28:05:10


Right? Well, at all right. We love us humans love the easy magical pill. Yeah. And so I think that people love to see for its ability to, you know, write a legal clause for your contract and then give you a lemon cheesecake recipe and then tell you a detective story. It’s just, you know. But we also weren’t meant to stop thinking.


00:28:05:14 – 00:28:26:01


Yeah, the easy button, right? The easy button. Yeah. The easy button gets boring. So I think that I think most humans, when they’re in like a, you know, production too. Donald Trump, you know, production tech job, it’s very like soul sucking for most humans, you know, we don’t like being in like a boring out here, blah, blah, blah.


00:28:26:01 – 00:28:42:04


You know, not using uninterrupted repetition. We don’t like it. We like using our brains. We like being creative and problem solving and figuring out how to do the next best cool thing. Or like I know I’ve been doing it this way forever, but what if we did this and we innovate? We come up with something new and fresh and awesome that makes our life better.


00:28:42:06 – 00:29:12:09


Like, yeah, humans like doing that typically. I totally agree. And there’s a reason that all of the the technology that we have enjoyed, like there are perks to it. I’m not a naysayer of, you know, I’m not I’m not sitting in the woods without electricity. I’m using these things and I enjoy them. But there is a reason that as there’s been a rise in technology, we’ve seen has seen the rise in loneliness as well.


00:29:12:09 – 00:29:38:02


And it’s I think that we were coming to a place in a lot of aspects, despite the rise of AI, were coming to a place where we’re realizing that and we are coming back to more, you know, in-person connection. We’re coming back to more tactile hobbies. We’re coming back to older forms of media because we want to engage and we want to make and we want to think and we want to create.


00:29:38:04 – 00:30:01:18


I couldn’t agree more. Yeah, or I start on that comment. So we’ll start with the COVID, right? So we were all locked down for so many years. I guess what people picked up, they picked up knitting, they picked up baking, they picked up, you know, all these more crafted hobbies that we kind of once lost because now we’re we’re not social sharing, you know, we’re not in person.


00:30:01:18 – 00:30:26:02


So that’s the next best thing, right? So without human connectivity, we turn to craft. So people started, you know, at home businesses crafting beer or they were making doilies or they were making scarves or they were baking or they all these all sort of their home businesses, jewelry, you know, whatever it was a home, because then they human humans, if they’re not communicating with persons they love crafting and making things.


00:30:26:04 – 00:30:41:23


Yeah. I mean, during the pandemic I picked up foraging for mushrooms. I literally decided to go get lost. Yeah, You’re like, What am I doing myself? I can’t talk to a human. I guess I had to go do a thing by myself or craft or use my hands or go to something else. Cause I then humans are going to choose to do.


00:30:42:00 – 00:31:07:24


Yeah. And so if you didn’t do that, then, yeah, you were really lonely, sad person. We had a saw a huge height of depression and suicide during the pandemic because humans don’t like being away from other humans. We are on average, we’re very social creatures and we enjoy human connectivity. Well, and just to bring that back to the idea of brand for a moment, that’s the reason Brand needs to feel personal.


00:31:08:01 – 00:31:35:08


That’s the reason Brand needs to feel human and rooted in emotion. And, you know, I guess saying that it needs to feel emotion is is also misleading because it just actually has to be no, social has to really be that way. Most of us that are, you know, pretty decent IQ IQ is will send will sniff it out like we could probably read a bit because most of us are well read or educated to some degree.


00:31:35:13 – 00:32:02:10


We’ll read a bit and be like, nah, like you can step in not from a mile away, but you’re, you know, you obviously you’re well read and well written, but you can sniff out I created a copy a mile away. I have my glasses. Yeah you have your person. My guess Yeah. Because if you are a craft, if you are a craftsman in your field, you can sniff out the lack of craftsmanship a mile away.


00:32:02:12 – 00:32:33:19


Mm hmm. Absolutely. I think it was Daniel Pink was the author of Thinking Fast and Slow, if I remember correctly, and he talks a lot about that. He gives a lot of examples of people intuitively knowing what is real and it’s authentic. A real and authentic. I think most of us humans can be like, uh, even if we don’t suspect that it’s fake, that doesn’t mean we connect with it doesn’t mean we like it or remember it or notice it or crave it.


00:32:33:21 – 00:32:53:20


It doesn’t mean we like just because we people can’t identify. Oh, this was written by a robot. I should ignore it, even if their senses are not that keen. That’s not the point. That is not the point. The point is that your brand has to cut through a bunch of robot generated noise and actually connect people, connect with people and motivate them to action.


00:32:53:22 – 00:33:22:06


And it’s rare for a brand even created by humans to do that. Like it’s that’s a hard thing to accomplish. You need the right people to help you execute on a vision like that. But I just I just don’t think that people will connect with that content the same way. I don’t think so. You know, I was just having a conversation, my husband, about this, you know, So I don’t know if I know I haven’t mentioned it to you.


00:33:22:08 – 00:33:49:07


So I I’m launching a store for my Amber isms. I did see that you sent me the photos of that, that the tote and that the t shirt. It’s great. Okay. So I’m launching the store this week and next week to go buy in Amazon’s awesome amber dot com for slash store to buy some Amber isms and I thought that yes I could have done my typical thing where I told her I was a client.


00:33:49:07 – 00:34:07:16


I was like, Oh yeah, I need to display ads. You need a newsletter and a social media launch party. And I was like, You know what? I’m talking to my husband. I’m going to old school. I’m going to get a postcard in the mail to all of my persons. I’m going a little old school go mayday, launch party.


00:34:07:18 – 00:34:35:19


You know what my day is. So I’m going to. Yeah. So I also ran around the neighborhood meeting all my friends, all my neighbors. It was so much fun. Do you want to explain for your audience? Okay, so Mayday is actually a really old I think it’s Roman or Greek era tradition where on mayday, mayday happens to be right between like a spring and summer solstice for the days are trying to get longer and Mayday was a celebration.


00:34:35:21 – 00:34:57:19


People wore flower crowns and they had a mayday pole where they danced around it with ribbon and flowers. And it was like a big happy celebration. And that by night they had bond part bonfires and parties and they were playing music and having flowers and like running through the streets with a flower crown, playing the lute. Like what did you what did you do to your neighbors?


00:34:57:21 – 00:35:18:10


So that’s the old tradition. That’s like, you know, that era. That’s what Mayday was and is. So the modern version of Mayday is where you take a bouquet of flowers. So I took two lopsided, three tulips and bouquet, and I tie a little string ribbon and a little note like says, because most people don’t know what mayday, as I says, happy mayday.


00:35:18:10 – 00:35:41:13


And I get like a little spiel of what mayday is and on the back, how to care for their flowers. I tie it all together in a ribbon. And then what I did was I put all I did 30 neighbors, I put all my 30 neighbor bouquets into like my little back, two animated into a satchel, a bag, and got on my bicycle and ran around my whole neighborhood at like 5 a.m. the morning on Mayday.


00:35:41:19 – 00:36:12:22


And I went and stuck it in all of their handles, their front door handles for the whole neighborhood. And I did it and left. I didn’t tell them who it was. I didn’t put in that, you know, love so and so. It was a supposed to be a happy surprise. Dash shenanigans on Mayday. So you go around the neighborhood, I put all my bicycle, the so cute I like five in the morning I made all of my neighbors and went back to normal business like it never happened.


00:36:12:24 – 00:36:30:09


So at sunrise I was done. So kind of like a like a old school paper boy that I was just thinking of that my first job was actually a paper route. Yeah. So my dad. Yeah, I just is the only time in my life that I, for some reason enjoyed waking up really early. And you actually had to put the papers together.


00:36:30:09 – 00:36:56:04


You had to put all the sections together and then wrap it and and take it out to the neighborhood. And, and I like to do it before people woke up because it was also very hot in the summers in Michigan, which is where I’m from. And yeah, I would go out with my bike. This was before the days when like a paper route just meant people, you know, with their trunk open in the back of their minivan just like chucking papers in the general direction of your house.


00:36:56:04 – 00:37:13:06


I would go up to the front door and, like, place it very neatly as like, on there. You want a good tip, you know, or you wanted to get the next quarter, you know, with that person, you had to, like put the paper where they wanted it and do good service. That way they would tip you at the end of the season and then also sign on for more newspapers.


00:37:13:08 – 00:37:28:13


Yeah, because you had to go collect the fee in person so you didn’t want to show up at their door being the person who, like beheaded their tulips by tossing a paper in the garden, you know? So it’s so funny to see. That is because my dad would speak. My dad’s one of his first jobs was also a paper boy route.


00:37:28:15 – 00:37:45:13


So my dad had, like always told me as a kid, like all of these, like, great stories of him and his first job as a paper boy and how like, well, this neighbor wanted it in this mailbox, in this neighborhood, wanted to on on this on the welcome rug this way, or some people wanted it through the drop box or whatever.


00:37:45:13 – 00:38:03:07


So you had to remember he said he had to remember where everybody wanted the paper. And at the end of the season, I will collect the fee and then ask them to sign up for the next quarter. And he’s like, all these funny stories being a paper boy, you know, in Spokane, Washington. I love that. So I have fond memories of it.


00:38:03:07 – 00:38:17:23


So then I guess my dad called my dad right after I had done May Day. Now, like dad, I too was like a little let’s like a little paper boy. This last was this morning. I ran around all the neighborhood and I said, and I made eight everybody. He’s like, Good job. That’s so good. So I felt really good this summer.


00:38:17:23 – 00:38:36:17


I felt really good. I made a sneaker called Neighbors. I was like, Yeah, I just it all my neighbors. And then all day the neighbors were like, Because we’re all out here and we all have each other’s information all day long. They’re like, Did you do it? Did you do it? We also have like a big community group text.


00:38:36:19 – 00:38:55:19


And so they’re like, Who? Thank you for the name of the tulips, but who did it? And so like, well, maybe, maybe Colleen did it, maybe Danielle did it, you know? So all day they’re trying to figure out who did the flowers and that’s why they still don’t know. But they know because I’m guessing not a postcard, everybody.


00:38:55:19 – 00:39:25:06


So that way they actually know what’s wrong. Don’t they know that you’re the mischievous one in the neighborhood? I guess, like, well they’re learning. So it’s super fun. I made it all my neighbors with a little bouquet of flowers. I love that. It was fun. Anyhow, So a little old school, right? So that’s super old school style. Like to go paper out, wake up at the early morning, you know, before dawn and, go out and deliver all of my bouquets before they all woke up and came and started of their days.


00:39:25:08 – 00:39:47:13


Yeah, that’s a really niche tactic called guerilla marketing. Right. So of a really good you call it guerilla marketing. So I was working with another client of mine here and yep, I just recently moved here about doing a guerilla campaign just like that where, you know, you maybe a copartner on a bet, you do a postcard or you do a book or you do a funny thing and you go door to door and, you know, put it on everybody’s stoops.


00:39:47:14 – 00:40:06:13


So that way when they walk into the business that morning, they have to meet. They have a surprise waiting at their doorstep. It’s super unique and different and memorable, and I think, you know, I was right. I was talking my husband about like he’s like now I get so bombarded with email newsletters, I nearly half of them now because I don’t want to like it’s just too many.


00:40:06:15 – 00:40:29:15


And so I was like, yes, what are they then do this postcard thing? Because I think people really enjoy getting a postcard in the mail versus another newsletter that they’re just going to delete because they don’t have time for them all because they’re just too many of them. So it’s true. So I’m going a little old school on this campaign and going the postcard, and then I was like, Well, what’s going to be something that they’re actually going to keep and maybe put on their tech board, right?


00:40:29:15 – 00:40:56:04


Like what’s going to be something actually that they keep? So I also did something unique that I’m pretty sure they’re all going to keep in. Maybe promo tech board remember me for later, because it’s all about, you know, being top of mind, being unique. What sets you apart, being a little different? You know, I’ve always done I’ve always, always done like handwritten cards, like thank you cards or I remember I’ve always done that throughout ever since I was middle school when I was interviewing for jobs.


00:40:56:04 – 00:41:15:04


I always send a thank you card in the mail to my interviewee. That’s just been a little small thing that I’ve always done ever since I was again. Now, now that’s a rather impossible thing to do. That’s not for for when you’re looking for jobs. I have no, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t know. I mean, a lot of people are working from home now.


00:41:15:06 – 00:41:32:00


I mean, you can send an email, you can send like cool email things. But yeah, I just think that, you know, but you can look up any business. So if anybody’s got a business license, you can look them up and look where their addresses. Sure, Yeah. But again, a lot of people aren’t in the office anymore. Yeah, it’s hard.


00:41:32:00 – 00:41:48:23


Yeah, you’re right. So I guess you’d have to send it to the headquarters and then hopefully get it from there. Yeah, but you can look up any business through the Secretary of State. For any state out there. You can look up any business address if they got a business license, they’re registered online. You won’t be hired from Yammer.


00:41:48:23 – 00:42:23:09


It’s going to find you. Other reports. I know you got them. I know where you live. This sounds like the beginning of a horror movie. I know. What public access did you know that? Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. But most people don’t know that. So you can look up any business in any state by going to the Secretary of State dinner business, look up, and you can look up any business as long as you know the governor’s name, like the governor, no managing manager, person or owner of a business name, full name and their business DBA.


00:42:23:11 – 00:42:51:16


You look up any business and find out their address. No problem. Awesome. Amber coming to a mailbox near you. I mean, I’ve done that for my post office. Fine, But I just did today. I believe it. Like, I will leave it at this address. I don’t know where they live. It’s not on their website. I’m going to go find it.


00:42:51:18 – 00:43:10:07


But it’s all for a good reason, because I want to send you a silly postcard in the mail. It’s awful. There’s no malicious intent. There is a lot of effort, though. It’s a lot of effort. Well, because I care. I do it because I care. I genuinely want to connect with you and I genuinely want to send you a lovely bit to make you smile.


00:43:10:09 – 00:43:36:10


Yeah, I think that is something that I like about working with you, is that you’re a you’re a very caring person. You do go the extra mile to show people that. Yeah, yeah. I like including and I like, oh, I like bringing joy to people because it’s like for me, my art, my designs is like the penguin and the pebble.


00:43:36:12 – 00:43:53:03


It’s like, you know, you get out there you like, I hope you like my pebble. I’ve made the special thing just for you. I think it’s going to be awesome. I hope you like it, too. That’s so cute. Is that a kid story? I’m not familiar with it. You never heard of the penguin in the pebble? No, I’m.


00:43:53:03 – 00:44:11:15


I’m totally out of the loop. Okay, So is this a rickshaw a real thing? So the penguin on the pebble, so penguins, when they go to meet the male penguin, goes and gets a really cool, shiny pebble on the shore. I forget what breed of penguin this is our species, and they present it to the female penguin. Do you like my pebble?


00:44:11:16 – 00:44:38:07


Will you marry me for that? Cause they meet for life laughing. My, my mate, will you marry me? And it’s the penguin in the pebble, Right? And if she likes the pebble. All right, I’ll marry you. If she doesn’t care. It says this pebble. Yeah. So penguins do this. I think in the bird species of birds do this with, like the males do with, like, an exotic dance, or they do it with gifts or a special nest area and the male goes on display.


00:44:38:07 – 00:44:59:22


Look at me. I’m so awesome. I got this cool dance. It’s a lot of birds do it, but penguins do it by a pebble. That’s very sweet. So it’s like, Will you marry me? I think this pebble is really beautiful. I hope you like it. And that’s branding in a nutshell, folks. Just making a shiny pebble for your customers to love so that they want to marry you forever.


00:44:59:24 – 00:45:27:14


That’s really what it’s all about. That’s it. So that’s my penguin on the Pebble story, right? That’s very cute. That’s how I feel when I. When I designed my designs off, I made this really cool logo. I hope you like it. Yeah. I don’t know what to say. It’s ridiculous. Really. It’s not ridiculous. It’s so earnest. It’s honest, You know, like a little prince, aren’t we?


00:45:27:16 – 00:45:49:23


We really put most creatives. We really put our, like, heart and soul into our designs, into our creativity. And we really it sounds like a cliche, but we really do. We really put our hearts and souls into our work for other people to critique. We’re really trying to make things better for our clients, and I think that there’s a lot that goes unseen.


00:45:50:00 – 00:46:07:20


And one of the hard things I think about what we do is what anyone is trying to sell. It’s like you don’t you don’t need your client to be an expert in what do they don’t want to be an expert in what you do, but you also want them to appreciate what you do. Right. And job. Mhm. Exactly.


00:46:07:20 – 00:46:36:03


And you know, I went to this, I went to this networking event last week and Oh yeah, I want to, I want to hear all about this. Yeah I Oh not the, not the speech, I just, I just spoke at a conference in D.C., but I went to another networking event last week locally here in Seattle and man, I just had a really disappointing moment that I was unprepared for, where it’s bringing a lot of these ideas together.


00:46:36:03 – 00:47:03:16


Where I was. I was talking to the founder of a startup and you know, it’s asking a lot about his business and a lot of the new startups they have I incorporated into their business model. So of course they think is great. No problem with that. But then when they ask me about what I do and I talk to them about it, they I just don’t think that they understand or appreciate sometimes, like people who are super tech focused, it’s like harder for them to see the value of human work.


00:47:03:18 – 00:47:24:22


There is something I don’t know. I don’t know. But he basically just I told him about my and he just looked at me and said, I just have to write everything for me. And I was like, No, not your client. Don’t worry about it. No, it’s not my client. But it was really disappointing to me because I think that, okay, in case you’re super, just in case any of your listeners are super excited about chat.


00:47:24:22 – 00:47:45:09


G.P.S. I’m going to tell you, don’t say that to a writer because it’s rude. It is. It’s like I write, like, How would you feel? It’s a lot about your job. Yeah, like, Oh, I’m just you’re obsolete to me. And I have replaced you with a machine and it’s not, you know, like, if if that’s what works for you.


00:47:45:09 – 00:48:05:03


Great. Like, engage the writers in a discussion about it. I don’t know. Ask them what they think as they’ve used it. Ask them about writing. I don’t know. But like, I was just really surprised that someone would say something like that. Well, I get that all the time in my industry too. Like, Oh, it’s just art. Oh, it’s just graphic design.


00:48:05:04 – 00:48:23:11


You just like, you know, just just that thing together, right? Like, you just, you know, just to look that up for me real quick. You’ve heard that, right? Well, and then you see the you see the the work that is produced by companies that think that. And it’s usually really awful. Yeah. So, I mean, like those are ones, as they say, oh, you just like whiz bang that together.


00:48:23:11 – 00:48:48:12


You’re just art, you’re just design service of the ever use the fucking word service to me ever again. I hang up the phone, you’re done. Time out. Do not Pasco not click on $200. I am not a design service, you know, fly kite cargo. So as soon as I hear client say that, I’m out the door. But going back to your idea of, like, obsolete, you know, I just think it’s just this industry has now seen it for the first time.


00:48:48:12 – 00:49:08:05


Right. So we’ve been seeing this slowly happen encroach on human jobs and we’ve seen it time and time again. You know, early 1900s, it was, you know, people working on the railroad or people making things by hand. Well, guess what? Then we had the industrial revolution, got rid of a lot of jobs. And then, you know, we were doing things by hand shoveling and whatever.


00:49:08:05 – 00:49:26:01


Then we got tractors, you know, and then know also we lost jobs that way. So it’s, you know, and then recently in the modern time, right, then all of a sudden now we have kiosks. You go to McDonald’s or you go to Starbucks, you can order on an app, you can order on a kiosk. Many banks now have a kiosk for a bank tellers.


00:49:26:01 – 00:49:44:21


No more bank tellers. You go to the grocery store, there’s no more human checking your groceries. You can self-checkout. You know, we used to enjoy having human engagement at the bank. Hey. Hey. How’s it going today? I’m going to see you. You know, whatever. And you’d have a human connection. You would deposit your moneys and, you know, and you have a nice little chat, and that’s now gone.


00:49:45:00 – 00:49:59:17


Most most banks have gotten rid of that. So, you know, the cashier, you know, you go as you read your groceries and I’ll have to go in today. You become a regular. How how’s the kids, how they’re doing all this good. How are they? You know, And then you move along a merry way. They get groceries and they even help you out to the car.


00:49:59:19 – 00:50:29:13


Right? Well, now we think it is convenient, right, With these as convenience that all of us self-checkout all this stuff. Take care of my thinking. I’ll do a kiosk, I’ll order my own latte, I’ll order my own burger on an app because it’s convenient and, you know, sense of ease, you know, Amazon go, Oh, I just self-checkout. I got my app on my phone or my watch and I’ll just self I’ll go to the grocery store and I’ll grab my bits, walk out the door.


00:50:29:13 – 00:50:44:23


I don’t want to talk to a person. You know, I think that so vital opening to that industry and again, I think you’re going to see it come full circle where no, actually I purposely now I go to the cashier at a grocery store. I talk to a person I don’t I don’t want them to lose their jobs.


00:50:45:00 – 00:51:06:20


You know, I don’t want anyone to lose their jobs either. But I think that there is something to be said for evolve doing as well as is good. And it’s not like, yeah, I mean, I don’t I think it’s more complex and like the, the convenience of those things is real and it makes things possible for people that weren’t before.


00:51:06:22 – 00:51:29:17


People get more access, easier access to things because of the technology that we have. And so I think there’s definitely a lot to appreciate about it, but we have to have balance. And that balance is having the human connection that we need to feel good and that balance is having enough work for people to do and and make a living.


00:51:29:19 – 00:51:50:19


And that balance is not giving up our community for the sake of our technology. So I think that it’s it’s a real balancing act. And there are, you know, pros and cons every step of the way. I don’t think that we’ll ever be in a utopian place where technology, you know, stays in its lane and then humans just enjoy the rest.


00:51:50:19 – 00:52:12:20


But, you know, I’m here for the evolution of it all. Yeah, I know for sure. I think there’s a fine balance, like you said, like an evolution of technology that make humans better. They improve our lives in a lot of ways. There’s a lot of modern technology, a lot of modern health, a lot of modern things that have improved and advanced humans.


00:52:12:22 – 00:52:41:10


It’s a beautiful thing, but there’s also that balance. So you’re saying there’s some things we’re like, we take it on and we have other further removed. The play. Maybe, you know, we don’t need all the bits, right? So I think you’re going to see this like we’re excited about this new cool technology. This is great. And then we’re going to be like, Yeah, maybe that wasn’t exactly a great idea, and we’re going to backpedal on a couple of bits, but keep the cherry picked, you know, cherry pick the bits that we like and that were successful and that did work and then maybe toss the rest.


00:52:41:12 – 00:53:05:09


So I think you’re going to see the same thing with this gem chat. DB GB does. Yeah, we’ve definitely seen each wave of technology have its bubble, have its right maximum saturation point and then find its place in an ecosystem of things. And I don’t think that I will be any different. You know, we have technological frontiers is beyond I to explore and we’ll get to those soon enough.


00:53:05:09 – 00:53:34:06


But in the meantime, I think that it’s our role as creatives when it comes to A.I. of course there are many applications for AI, but you know, for the parts that relate to the work we do, it’s our job to really be stewards of ethical use and and help businesses make sure that they’re not jumping in too hard, too fast in areas that actually undermine the trust of the customers that they value most.


00:53:34:08 – 00:54:01:03


Couldn’t agree more. I think that’s one of the big things that that Writer’s Guild is kind of hitting on right now. The ethical usage of AI when it’s appropriate to use and when it’s not. And I think that’s going back to that. What you just said, that the stewards of ethical usage. Yeah, absolutely. Boy, I didn’t think you were going to get in so deep into I start a conversation today.


00:54:01:05 – 00:54:21:06


Oh, you don’t need to apologize like these conversations go. You just never know. They kind of go I don’t really structure my podcast. They just organically work themselves out. Mike was having a couple of kick off questions and what is the where the conversation goes? Yeah, No, I think that it’s gone to a lovely place and we have to reflect on these things again.


00:54:21:06 – 00:54:43:09


We have to engage with the ideas. We can’t. You know, outright discount this technology just because it’s uncomfortable or new or threatening or whatever else. You know, we have to be stewards of it. And that means we have to engage with it and have these kinds of conversations. So thank you so much for bringing me on to do that.


00:54:43:11 – 00:55:05:00


Yeah, I think it’s great I think, you know, like with many things, you need to engage them. You need to face them head on rather than suppress and avoid them. Yeah, absolutely. So I think it’s a good thing that we’re having these creatives are having these types of conversations and then almost like beating clients to the punchline of, well, now I don’t need you anymore.


00:55:05:02 – 00:55:24:11


I’m going to go get a kiosk, right? I’m gonna go get an AI technology. I don’t need humans anymore. Well, I think you’re going to see even a resurgence back humans in some of those industries where we’ve lost that personal touch, that personal connection. Yeah. I think that as long as you’re it’s going to be that as long as your customers are humans, you’re going to need humans somewhere in your business.


00:55:24:11 – 00:55:49:13


Because if you didn’t, we’d just be replacing CEOs with AI. Like, we’re not doing that, okay? We need humans. There’s not a single human out there that I know of that enjoy automated phone systems, not a single one. And I know of. I hate that we could talk another whole hour about that, but I can’t see how any in upcoming events or speaking engagements are things that are going to be coming up.


00:55:49:15 – 00:56:10:04


I just finished up giving a talk at Digital Summit in Washington, DC. We were talking to marketers about how to use LinkedIn to actually increase the reach of your B2B brand. That was great. I got so many great questions. It was a wonderful time and it was lovely to see DC with all the cherry blossoms in bloom. Oh, it must be epic.


00:56:10:06 – 00:56:29:13


Can we see recorded You have a podcast. There’s a kind of recording or do they send out? Fortunately not. I was sad about that. Yeah, I know. I think there’s is some of your back after that. Yeah, I think this was our first year back after the pandemic, so that kind of stuff is still like ramping up, but we’ve can people reach you?


00:56:29:16 – 00:56:54:09


Where can people find you? Where can people reach you? Absolutely. Great question. Best way to find me is on the website which is composure digital dot com. And if you want to reach out to me directly just Ashley as h l e y at composure digital dot com. Of course you can find me on LinkedIn if you search Amber will have my first and last name on there so you can find me easily.


00:56:54:11 – 00:57:12:24


Yeah, those are the best places to find me for now, but more to come for sure. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Happy Cinco de Mayo to you. Happy Cinco de Mayo. And I hope you have a margarita, some tacos and some talks tonight with wonderful friends and family. You, too. Until next time.


00:57:13:01 – 00:57:26:18


Until next time. Thanks so much, Amber. Thank you. Have a great day.


Join our quarterly newsletter

Sign up for our free newsletter containing our latest projects, insights and resources.